Another site argues mostly for possessives and starts with an excellent example, though it points out the awkwardness of possessives in complex sentences.
I would argue that an awkward sentence is no excuse for bad grammar (I mean this generally, not specifically to the gerund issue).
In any event, you make two points that I wish to address specifically. The first is that you "don't see where the possessive comes in." Technically you are correct. John doesn't own the kissing. I should have said that the genitive should be used before gerunds. The genitive case, while used for possessives, is also used at other times. Site that details other uses of genitive.
The second is (paraphrased), English is as English does. I alluded to my own discomfort with such "rules" as possessing one's gerunds, split infinitives, and terminal prepostions in my initial post. Many people (perhaps most?) break these rules, including many professional writers. Certainly I break them myself unless I'm focusing on them. So why keep these rules? Why have grammar "rules" at all? Or spelling for that matter? The reason is that such rules provide a basis for communication. Without a set of standards, local idiom and dialect would quickly lead to sublanguages that don't play well together. Such standards also stabilize a language, so that we are able to enjoy the writings of 300 years ago without a translator.
Don't get me wrong. Language should be able to grow and change, and certainly we gain new words, and lose archaic ones, every year. Idiom and dialect give the language flavor and vigor and diversity. When such changes spread and become commonplace, it may be time to reexamine old rules. Such change should, however, take a long time. Otherwise, we risk linguistic chaos.
Now I've gotten a bit into generality and away from the gerund issue, so I'll stop my ranting. I will end with a question: You make a distinction between formal and common English. How do you differentiate the two, and why do you think they exist?
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Another site argues mostly for possessives and starts with an excellent example, though it points out the awkwardness of possessives in complex sentences.
I would argue that an awkward sentence is no excuse for bad grammar (I mean this generally, not specifically to the gerund issue).
In any event, you make two points that I wish to address specifically. The first is that you "don't see where the possessive comes in." Technically you are correct. John doesn't own the kissing. I should have said that the genitive should be used before gerunds. The genitive case, while used for possessives, is also used at other times. Site that details other uses of genitive.
The second is (paraphrased), English is as English does. I alluded to my own discomfort with such "rules" as possessing one's gerunds, split infinitives, and terminal prepostions in my initial post. Many people (perhaps most?) break these rules, including many professional writers. Certainly I break them myself unless I'm focusing on them. So why keep these rules? Why have grammar "rules" at all? Or spelling for that matter? The reason is that such rules provide a basis for communication. Without a set of standards, local idiom and dialect would quickly lead to sublanguages that don't play well together. Such standards also stabilize a language, so that we are able to enjoy the writings of 300 years ago without a translator.
Don't get me wrong. Language should be able to grow and change, and certainly we gain new words, and lose archaic ones, every year. Idiom and dialect give the language flavor and vigor and diversity. When such changes spread and become commonplace, it may be time to reexamine old rules. Such change should, however, take a long time. Otherwise, we risk linguistic chaos.
Now I've gotten a bit into generality and away from the gerund issue, so I'll stop my ranting. I will end with a question: You make a distinction between formal and common English. How do you differentiate the two, and why do you think they exist?
Thanks for your comments,
Java