Pledges and the like

[javasaurus]

I'm of two minds on a particular issue, that being the recitation of the pledge. I'm not referring to the "under God" issue. That, in my mind at least, seems clear, and it is discussed enough elsewhere. My current interior monologue is about whether the pledge should be said at all. One the one hand, we who are citizens of this country, can be said to owe allegience to this country as a responsibility associated with our citizenship. That part of my mind says, "Don't want to be loyal to the country? Then give up the citizenship!"

The other part of my mind responds, "True loyalty is gained by being worthy, not by indoctrination and pledges and contracts. The government should spend more time on being worthy, and displaying that worth, rather than arguing over pledges."

Then the first side says, "That may be true, but this is the government we have, the citizenship you have, and the price for keeping that citizenship."

And so on. Very distracting. Thoughts?

Oh, I want to point out, that being loyal to a country or to the ideal of its leadership, is not the same as being loyal to the people currently holding those positions. It is possible to respect the office of the president, for example, without respecting the person holding that office.

Comments

an episode of MASH

[acroyear70.livejournal.com]

had a nice bit between two re-occurring characters (Sidney and Flagg), where Flagg was going to oust Sidney from the service because he didn't sign his "loyalty oath" (theoretically required to be an officer) and thus was a pinko commie.

Sidney's reply: if I was a communist trying to infiltrate the army and cause disruptions, do you think I would have even hesitated to sign it?

Re: an episode of MASH

[javasaurus.livejournal.com]

Sidney is always great. In most episodes, I think of Hawkeye as being the "author's voice," i.e., the character that represents the author, portraying the author's beliefs, etc. However, Hawkeye speaks from the heart, from gut feelings, from morals. Sometimes the "author" needs a more logical, thinking voice, and in comes Sidney, whom I think of as the author's brain's voice.

Of course, the episodes where Sidney is working with Hawkeye are great. Need to spend more time watching MASH.

Pledging.

[xpioti.livejournal.com]

The problem with making pledges is that they're so very easy to break. "My word is my bond" is not a big priority in our society, and people are invariably shocked when they encounter someone who proves that their word is their bond. "I'll have it to you by Monday" now means "I may do it next week, sometime, if you're lucky and I have time". I think it's mostly pointless to stand up, every morning, salute a small blanket, and mouth useless platitudes.

However.

Every morning at 8am, military facilities send up the flag. Every evening at 5pm, the flag is lowered. A fanfare announces the act, and all over the campus every military member turns in the appropriate direction to face the flag and salutes. Woe betide the person who attempts to disrupt this. You want to piss off military law enforcement? Try to enter a base during Flag Salute Time; if you make the mistake of going around the person standing in the middle of the road, saluting with their entire body, you will be chased down and read the riot act. When I see them saluting the flag, the aura of respect, honor, dignity, and loyalty is so thick you could cut it with a knife. Trying to get that attitude from your average citizen works about as well as me telling Rex not to bite; he's a lot better about not biting, but he still opens his mouth and runs into me.

Re: Pledging.

[javasaurus.livejournal.com]

But do the members of the military do so because they are required to do so, because not doing so would land them in the stockades? Or are they doing so because they truly believe in what the flag represents, and are proud to openly display their pride along with their comrades? And in the latter circumstance, does that pride come from brainwashing, or from simply being shown what is good and worthy about the country.

Did you know that frequently throughout the year, hundreds of thousands of seemingly ordinary people, here in the US gather together at a variety of locations, and stand in deference to the flag, as the Star Spangled Banner is sung? Then the game begins. OK, I'm being a little silly here, but sports like baseball and football are an important part of Americana, and Americans take pride in that, and the flag is a very real part of the game. Maybe they don't face the flag every day at 8 and 5, but they make it a part of what means America to them.

Disjointed but thrown out for thoughts

[blueeowyn.livejournal.com]

I haven't read any of the comments and have sort of written this off-the-cuff.

I am of course going to take things and comment on them. I wholeheartedly agree with your statement being loyal to a country or to the ideal of its leadership, is not the same as being loyal to the people currently holding those positions. The idea of president, senator, justice, etc. is a strong one and there have been people holding positions who had no business being in that role. While I may quote Douglas Adams with "Anyone who can be elected president should on no account be given the job," I do believe that the presidency is a very important part of our government. However, I think that the way the offices are being used is changing and not necessarily for the better.

We have students in the schools who are not US citizens (and may never be), they can be children of diplomats (in this area), children of people who come here to do certain jobs but still want to go home. Why would they swear allegiance to the US, its flag, and its government? Especially when people are from the areas that the US is currently at war with (either officially or unofficially). Why would someone whose family is from Palestine pledge to the US? They may want to pledge allegiance to what the republic was meant to be, but is that what the pledge is?

I am also not sure about swearing allegiance to the FLAG, which flag? The 50 star flag? The 48 star flag? The one that Betsy Ross (supposedly) created? The one that is being restored at the Smithsonian?

You mention That may be true, but this is the government we have, the citizenship you have, and the price for keeping that citizenship. Isn't our duty to question when the government fails from what we think it should be? In my opinion, some of the duties of a citizen is to keep an eye on the government to help ensure that it is doing what it should do (and what that is would be another long post).

So, I don't like the pledge in schools for a number of reasons. The 'under God' is only a portion of that.d

Re: Disjointed but thrown out for thoughts

[javasaurus.livejournal.com]

to the flag of the United States of America

The original said "to my flag" and was later changed to "to the flag of the United States" and another change added "of America."

An interesting omission from the Pledge is the word "equality."
The Pledge was originally written by a Baptist minister in 1892 (here's a short history) who wanted to include "equality" but knew it would be rejected -- many people at the time were against racial and sex-based equality.

Also interesting is that the man was a socialist, and the words "under God" were added in 1954 as an anti-communist measure (and many people still equate socialism with communism -- then again, some people equate Hydrox and Oreo, which, as all Harlan Ellison fans should know, are NOT the same...)